Top 11 Things That Anti-War Protesters Would Have Said At the Normandy Invasion on D-Day (Had There Been Anti-War Protesters At Normandy)
11. No blood for French Wine!
10. It’s been two and a half years since Pearl Harbor and they still haven’t brought Admiral Nagumo to justice
9. In 62 years, the date will be 6/6/6. A coincidence? I think not.
8. All this death and destruction is because the neo-cons are in the pocket of Israel
7. The soldiers are still on the beach, this invasion is a quagmire
6. Sure the holocaust is evil, but so was slavery
5. We are attacked by Japan and then attack France? Roosevelt is worse than the Kaiser!
4. Why bring democracy to Europe by force and not to Korea or Vietnam? I blame racism
3. This war doesn’t attack the root causes of Nazism
2. I support the troops, but invading Germany does not guarantee that in 56 years we won't have a President who's worse than Hitler
1. I don't see Roosevelt or Churchill storming the beaches -- they're Chicken Hawks
10. It’s been two and a half years since Pearl Harbor and they still haven’t brought Admiral Nagumo to justice
9. In 62 years, the date will be 6/6/6. A coincidence? I think not.
8. All this death and destruction is because the neo-cons are in the pocket of Israel
7. The soldiers are still on the beach, this invasion is a quagmire
6. Sure the holocaust is evil, but so was slavery
5. We are attacked by Japan and then attack France? Roosevelt is worse than the Kaiser!
4. Why bring democracy to Europe by force and not to Korea or Vietnam? I blame racism
3. This war doesn’t attack the root causes of Nazism
2. I support the troops, but invading Germany does not guarantee that in 56 years we won't have a President who's worse than Hitler
1. I don't see Roosevelt or Churchill storming the beaches -- they're Chicken Hawks
posted by Sisyphus at 6/06/2006 10:37:00 AM
101 Comments:
These are TOTALLY great!
re: #8, technically speaking, weren't the ur-Neocons in the pocket of the Jewish Residents of the British Mandate in Palestine?
Roosevelt and Churchill both served in the military didn't they? While the chickenhawk label is b.s., Bush and Cheny both went out of their way to avoid military service (or at least combat).
Anonymous:
Nice revisionist slant. Bush volunteered for combat duty in Viet Nam but didn't get to go.
Churchill yes, Roosevelt no.
Bush requested a program that would have sent him to Vietnam, but was not selected because he didn't have enough flight hours yet.
Anonymous:
Furthermore, Roosevelt was Secretary of the Navy in WWI. This is not a combat job, to my knowledge.
Churchill was a soldier but gave it up in favor of writing for a career. During WWI he was Roosevelt's counterpart in the UK. Not exactly a combat role, either.
The close friendship between Roosevelt & Churchill grew out of their work together as heads of the two navies.
Churchill fought in the brutal Boer war in South Africa, escaping a Boer Prisoner of War camp. GWB flew fighters that were being phased out of the inventory. He asked to go to Viet Nam and was denied as the plane he was qualled on was being done away with. FDR the liberal hero of the ages did not serve in the armed forces much like his modern heir Bill Clinton
Churchill felt responsible (rightly) for the debacle at Gallipoli, and rejoined the army. He spent time in the trenches on the Western Front, before re-entering politics. No question but that he saw horrible front-line action during WW1.
So far, the influence of Leo Strauss brings forth the end of any possibility of social justice in a reactionary state. As Norman Mailer pointed out, Donald Rumsfeld's worldview leads our attention to the flagrant lies promulgated by the political donor class. Presumably, the appropriation of Arab resources provides a pretext for the seizure of the Iraqi Oil Ministry. Clearly, the 15-minute speech delivered Monday night by President Bush represents the repudiation of international law in order to bring about the final subjugation of the Middle East, beginning with the $90bn invasion of Iraq.
It appears that Donald Rumsfeld's worldview is determined by capitalist interests which lead to an act of international violence that exceeds even those of the "liberal" Bill Clinton. It is quite remarkable that the deal between the Department of Defense and Halliburton unit Kellogg, Brown & Root brings forth the resurgence of White Supremacist ideologies. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the unstated purpose of this war is solid evidence of this calamity brought to us by a horrific onslaught, known as Shock and Awe. On the other hand, a minority of warmongers and apologists brings about the seizure of the Iraqi Oil Ministry.
And there are a heck of a lot of safer ways to serve in the Guard or Reserves than flying fighter jets. By the way, thanks, blogger, for ignoring the rule that all lists must be of a number divisible by five!
Uh, is Mr. Anonymous being serious? If so, can someone please translate into English?
"Bush and Cheny both went out of their way to avoid military service (or at least combat)."
National Guard pilots routinely rotated through Vietnam. The worst place to hide from combat was as a fighter pilot.
And what about the millions of military stationed in Germany, England, France, Turkey, Greece, South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, etc.?
Were they also avoiding combat?
Churchill served in the military, Roosevelt did not. (He did serve as Undersecretary of the Navy during WWI when Churchill was at the Admiralty, but that was a civilian political post.)
Bush SERVED in the Military. The Guard and Reserve count - especially when you spend two years on FULL TIME ACTIVE DUTY learning the dangerous business of flying fighter jets. (Where your chances of being killed in a training accident are a hell of a lot higher than your odds of being killed cruising the coast of the U.S. or Japan, as John Kerry did during most of his naval service.) After spending some time in the military Bush repented his initial reluctance to go to Vietnam and volunteered for combat there - and was turned down.
Over 90% of those who served in the active duty military in the Vietnam era never saw combat, because they were serving in places like Korea, Germany, Japan, Spain or in the rear areas in South Vietnam. Or keeping the U.S. safe from the Russian nuclear threat by flying interceptors in Texas. If anybody who wasn't shot at by a VC or NVA regular was a "chicken hawk", there sure were a Hell of a lot of 'em.
Dick Cheney requested and received 5 draft deferments - which wasn't unusual. John Kerry ALSO requested 5 draft deferments while at Yale, where he was already (contrary to his later claims) a very public anti-war protestor.
He was granted 4 and refused a 5th. So rather than face the draft and combat duty in Vietnam he volunteered for the safest branch of the active duty military, the Navy, and passed his first tour without ever hearing a gun fire in anger or paying more than a courtesy call on a Vietnamese port. (He shipped mostly stuck to the American west coast and the waters around Japan. Which didn't stop Kerry from claming this cruise as his "first" tour of duty in Vietnam.)
Kerry then decided that his political prospects and anti-war activism would be enhanced if he actually set foot in Vietnam, but he needed to find a "safe" way of playing combat tourist. So he volunteered for Coastal Command, whose Swift Boats served as a kind of coast guard for South Vietnam, checking ships for contraband. They hardly ever saw a VC or North Vietnamese soldier or sailor.
Kerry was quite surprised when *after* he joined Coastal Command was tasked with dangerous river patrol work. It was then that Kerry discovered the obscure Navy reg that excused anyone with three Purple Hearts from further combat and then somehow managed the miraculous feat of *earning* 3 Purple Hearts in a mere 90 days without ever once spending a night in the hospital and (in at least one case) without leaving any paper trail behind to indicate how he actually got the medal.
So, who spent the most time doing the most dangerous work during the Vietnam War? John "90 day wonder" Kerry, who *never* volunteered for combat duty, only stumbled into it by accident, or George W. "Top Gun" Bush? :-)
Wasn't FDR in a wheelchair? Kind of hard to qualify for service in that condition.
How does Paris Hilton fit into this?
Churchill actually wanted to go to Normandy, and the King was asked to talk him out of it. George VI said to him, "Sure, if I get to go too!" Churchill got the point.
Churchill was a reporter in the Boer War, arrested for being a little to helpful to one side. He saw actual combat in the Sudan (or perhaps Afghanistan, I forget), in one of the last great cavalry charges. Otherwise, he served in the British Army in a somewhat quiet time, and took time off to be a reporter at a few active fronts- Cuba and others.
I'm pretty sure Roosevelt got polio well after he became eligible for military service, not that it really matters.
FDR got Polio ~1924, while in his 30s.
Imagine today's moonbats reaction to amphibious tanks that sink. Could they contain their glee long enough to be indignant for the cameras.
Funny you chose Normandy for your mildly witty post. Because Normandy shows exactly what is so wrong about Bush's Iraq blunder, and why we who oppose the war do so. And why your suggestions are so far off the mark. Normandy was necessary. It was fought against an enemy well-understood. The leaders planned the invasion and the aftermath. Great sacrifice was asked of both nations and was gladly given. And by golly, we WON. It made the US and the world safer. The contrast with Bush is so stark as to make one weep. The rhetoric (blood, toil, tears, and sweat; we have nothing to fear but fear itself -- vs we'r gonnna smoke 'em out) is the least of it. Churchill and Roosevelt were leaders who called upon the best of us, mobilized their nations to the task at hand, and chose the right way to fight the enemy. Destroyed him. Bush, on the other hand, has no clue who the enemy really is, chose a way to engage that has made the enemy stronger and us weaker, and has not only not called upon us to sacrifice in any way to win the war against terrorism, he can't define what it is. And has seen to it that the sacrifice will fall upon the next generation.
So: a post somewhere between wit and half-wit that completely missed the point; and fails to realize the disaster that Bush has brought upon us. It's not that we're not in a war against terrorism. It's that Bush threw gas on the fire; whereas Churchill and Roosevelt, and Normandy, quenched it.
They would have also said:
- Why are we rebuilding Europe and forcing democracy down Japan's throat when blacks, women, and gays are suffering here?
and
- Hitler has been out there building daycare centers and early education programs. The US hasn't done that. Meanwhile, the people of Germany are so grateful they call their schooling programs "Hitler youth."
All of this "Liberals woulda been all like..." talk is garbage. What did conservatives think about WW II? Guess what: they were isolationists. FDR was a liberal. Liberals supported the troops, believed in the mission, fought in the war, and earned the world's respect.
Great fucking analogy. Don't overwork that hamster lest he fly off the wheel. I hear they're hard to get back on.
Stupidest blog post I believe I have ever read.
Actually, Churchill told his generals that he was going to land with the troops on D-Day, and they couldn't dissuade him. Ultimately, they alerted the King, who, knowing that orders would have been useless, told Churchill that he too was going to come along for the party. This brought Churchill to his senses. (So, the last objection is wrong: Churchill was no 'chicken-hawk'.)
Dilip
Not so fast with the "liberals backed WWII while conservatives were isolationists" spiel. Churchill was of course a member of the Conservative party. He was sounding the warning bell about Hitler back when the radical Left in Europe and in the U.S. was busy defending the Hitler-Stalin pact and warning us not to be dragged into war by the warmongering Brits and the "bankers." There were fools and monsters on both right and left in those days, and we're damned fortunate that great men like FDR and the unrepentant old imperialist Sir Winston were around to defeat them.
Churchill was not responsible for the tragedy at Gallipoli. Churchill wanted to push forward. The problem was the two Admirals successively in charge of the Bristish ships who wouldn't go forward and wanted to wait for troops Kitchner didn't want to send. History has vindicated Churchill.
Dr Sid,
You must not have read much about the Normandy invasion or you would know that one of the things that was overlooked and cost thousands of lives and thousands more wounded was the bocage. Countless reports of troops/leaders not having idea about them. The solution to the bocage problem didn't come from Washington or London either. Sgt. Curtis G. Culin came up the idea of welding scrap iron onto the front of tanks to let them "chop" their way thru a hedgerow.
If the Lefty standard was applied to that then, we'd hear about how troops in the field are having to improvise their own equipment etc.
I thought that commentary was from The Onion -Then I realized it wasn't funny.
Seriously though, That's like the umpteenth time some motherfucking 5 tooth per-household blogger who quotes Mencken on their header without one synapse firing over the historical legacy of Mencken -y'know, when he decided to change his tune in the latter part of his life:
"As a nationally syndicated columnist and author of numerous books he notably assaulted America's preoccupation with fundamentalist Christianity, attacked the "Booboisie," his word for the ignorant middle classes: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American middle class." Mencken heaped scorn not only upon self-serving public officials but the contemporary state of American democracy itself: in 1931, the legislature of the U. S. state of Arkansas passed a motion to pray for Mencken's soul, after he had raised the state to the "apex of moronia"
Now where does that sound familiar?
D-Day was part of an ongoing campaign in response to actual attacks and occupations by two axis powers -Not an act of outright agression to a "perceived" threat.
The very idea of ever putting Iraq and WW2 in the same context deserves to have a giant shit taken on them. Fuck you and the horse you came in on, maggot.
Great post, thanks.
mpg,I didn't know the Luftwaffe was at Pearl Harbor...All the Nazis did was overrun Europe. But they didn't attack the US. Sure they sunk a few US ships and the Iraqis fired at US planes enforcing the no-fly zone, no big deal. 30-40 million people would have not been killed if a "pre-emptive" action had been taken in 1938...
Just great and are you not glad we did,nt have these jerks back in 1944? We would all be speaking german and we would have a dictator instead of a president we would have to hail and the swastika would be everywhere and these antiwar hippies would all be in a grave DEAD
This is my favorite NIGP Top 11 ever... Well done!
OK, it's an idiotic post, and another in a continuing series of "This is what liberals would say" that right wing bloggers seem to come up with whenever they can't think of anything of real value to post. And of course they have the added benefit of never being verifiable.
But what really strikes me is the efforts by "anonymous" to somehow make Kerry's experience in the Mekong Delta, being shot at and wounded while killing the enemy, LESS dangerous than Bush flying jets in the Texas skies. Talk about tortured logic. If any of these statistics about the dangers of flying jets are actually true, it's a sure bet that Bush didn't know them at the time. Or perhaps he did, which is what made a no-show posting in Alabama suddenly look so desirable.
Here's the kicker: "Kerry was quite surprised when *after* he joined Coastal Command was tasked with dangerous river patrol work. It was then that Kerry discovered the obscure Navy reg that excused anyone with three Purple Hearts from further combat and then somehow managed the miraculous feat of *earning* 3 Purple Hearts in a mere 90 days without ever once spending a night in the hospital and (in at least one case) without leaving any paper trail behind to indicate how he actually got the medal."
A couple of questions, anonymous (if that is your real name). Please cite where you learned that Kerry was "quite surprised" to be tasked with river patrol work. (Saying the Swifties told you doesn't count.) And please show a statistical analysis that demonstrates that three Purple Hearts in 90 days is "miraculous." Cause I'd hate to think you just pulled that out of your ass.
The Germans declared war on the US just after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.
One thing that libs today do not get is that they are not even close to liberals from 40, 50 or more years ago. Liberals back then actually cared about this country. They respected the government and its laws, customs and traditions. They did fight in the war right along with conservatives because they LOVED this country.
Liberals today do not love this country. At every turn they are trying to undermine it. They are against wire-tapping terrorist phone calls. They blame the US and its capitalism and imperialism for the terrorist attacks. There are groups that say every soldier's death in Iraq is a victory for the "freedom fighters" (and calling terrorists "freedom fighters" is such a joke it does not even deserve real discussion).
Today's liberals are a bunch of whiney, spoiled brats who do not understand world politics. They have a utopian ideal that we can all just hold hands and get along. And the funny part is that one of the main reasons we are hated by radical islam is the lives THEY live. You think radical islam likes gays, women's rights (not that that is bad, mind you, but they are against it), pornography, atheism, etc. What liberals have turned this country into in the last 30 or so years is a disgrace...
Shorter Sisyphus: Because today's liberals oppose unnecessary wars, they're just as bad as 1940s Republicans.
Bush Did Not Volunteer to Go to Vietnam
Why do so many Bush supporters keep repeating the lame myth that Bush volunteered to go to Vietnam. He didnt.
"When the president filled out his enlistment papers, those forms included a checkbox asking whether he wanted to serve overseas or not.
The president checked off the box labeled “I Do Not” volunteer to serve overseas."
Furthermore, President Bush when asked himself whether he volunteered to go to Vietnam he said NO.
Two weeks ago, when Tim Russert asked him point-blank whether “volunteer[ed] or enlist[ed] to go” to Vietnam, the president responded, “No, I didn’t. You’re right.”
This myth got started in the National Review, but its just a myth. Please let it go.
http://www.hillnews.com/marshall/022604.aspx
on December 11, 1941, GERMANY declared war on the United States.
Wow the rightwingers are sure clever at creating imaginary strawmen to knock down around here.
Did you ever try actually responding to real critics of the President's reckless policies or real liberals rather than these imaginary demons you enjoy making fun of? Do you enjoy such intellectual masturbation so much?
Responding to real criticisms or offering real concrete evidence of accusations is apparently too hard.
"Because today's liberals oppose unnecessary wars, they're just as bad as 1940s Republicans."
You mean, in that 1940s Republicans thought the war they were opposing was unnecessary, but they were wrong?
So what? Germany declared war on the U.S. on December 11, 1941. Words, mere words. By then, Germany was involved in a multifront war -- in North Africa, on the Eastern Front -- and posed no transatlantic threat, except possibly for an easily repulsed or avoided (just don't ship to belligerents) U-boat threat.
We were right to fight Germany, but the declaration of war didn't justify the fight.
It seems to me goat-boy, that a little preemptive war along about 1935 would have been an awfully good thing.
You mean, in that 1940s Republicans thought the war they were opposing was unnecessary, but they were wrong?
Shorter Anonymous: Yes, Saddam posed no threat whatsoever to the United States, but can you really prove the war was unnecessary?
Dr Sid - Wrong! Normandy was NOT a necessity in defeating the Germans (the Russians had that one covered by 1944). It was done only to prevent the whole of Europe becoming a Russian province. We did it to bring freedom to Europe - just like we're doing in Iraq.
SO WHAT if Germany declared war on the USA after we declared war against Japan!
How does that make us any less guilty of engaging in a war where we weren't actually threatened, since the Nazis in 1941 had virtually no forces capable of attacking the US homeland --- and never did mount attacks on our soil.
Since, as every modern liberal believes, "wars don't solve anything", America could have simply surrendered to Hitler, right?
RIGHT??????
Wait a minute. We attacked France? I thought the Germans were the ones who bombed Pearl Harbor!
Ah, great post if it can set these moonbats to flying and squawking!
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Notice how the crowd that doesn't like this post immediately resorts to name-calling?
I'm just saying....Talk about resorting to some tactic when you don't really have a point to make....
Ah, great post if it can set these moonbats to flying and squawking!
Those who you call "moonbats," dearie,
Only fly and squawk in theory.
Liberal bloggers write of scandal,
But they don't fly off the handle;
Right-wing bloggers, they've got Malkin --
Call us angry? Look who's talkin'!
Every righty, soon or later,
Calls a liberal a traitor,
Screeches from his home suburban
That we ought to kill Dick Durbin;
And instead of births or weddings,
Look for items on beheadings.
Atrios can snark and mock
And righties go right into shock;
Colbert once proved, the night he spoke,
That righties cannot take a joke.
Left-wing bloggers have Edroso;
Right-wing humor? Merely so-so.
Why are all you right-wing wage-slaves
Humorless, unhinged, weird rage-slaves?
The comparison is more apt than it might appear to be at first since Nazi Agents were active in sabotage despite the inability to attack the US in a direct manner. Isolationists of all stripes were quite willing to ignore the abhorent behavior of the totalitarian regimes in order to keep the peace.
Iraq itself is an enormous gamble, we could have taken down Saddam, made sure the WMDs were out, and left the Iraqis with a mess. President Bush will be judged based on the outcome of this gamble.
The readers on the left should argue the points on the merits rather than flinging invective and hate. Cheers
WW2 was of course all blowback from the Treaty of Versailles. Thus it was really the fault of the Allies for making Hitler what he was and and helped hm recruit to his ideology.
Boy, we have some real Alpha-male lefties posting on here tonight, don't we? "Ohh Rosco, I love it when you threaten all those horrid right-wingers." Somebody must have spiked the KY jelly with steroids!
Keep on beating your chest and looking the fool. You are making LOTS of converts out here in Jesusland.
The Left was totally against any war in Europe until the Nazis had the bad taste to violate their treaty with their allies the Soviet union and attack.
Oh, damn, did I actually say the Soviet Union was an ally of Nazi Germany?
Ah, yeah I did. When Hitler invaded Poland from the west, who do you think invaded Poland from the east?
While the rest of western europe was being slaughtered wholesale, Stalin provided goods and supplies to the Nazis from the 1930's, right up until the attack on Russia in june 1941.
For the months between September 1939 until June 1941, Soviet Russia provided the bulk of Nazi Germanys raw materials.
Yeah. The Progressive leftist land of the new stalinist man. The new utopia of Lenin helped the Nazis subjugate a continent.
And the leftist intelligencia of Europe and America stood by in support of all of it, the invasion of poland, france, the netherlands and the UK. So much for the 'peaceful wishes of the progressives". It wasnt until Herr Hitler invaded Russia that the left finally recongized the necessity of war against the fascists.
How different world history might have been had the only European power with a large army and airforce actually decided it was necessary to stop Hitler, instead of aiding him at every turn.
How different todays history might be if the left understood that the fight against the islamic fascist empire is their fight as well.
Apparently your dad or mommy
Informed you "liberal" equals "commie,"
That's why you scream and turn quite green
At moderate, pro-gun Howard Dean
Or budget-balancing, hawkish Clinton --
You're rather strange, is what I'm hintin'.
The Commies liked the Nazis once,
Which makes me pro-Saddam? You dunce!
But still, I never can destroy a
Scintilla of your paranoia,
So though I do not wish to hurt you,
To sanity I can't convert you.
"Islamofascism" has a ring,
Alas, of course, there's no such thing;
It's just a made-up catch-all word
Applied to the whole Muslim herd,
And thus, the dupes were misdirected
And nodded heads when bush connected
Those enemies, Saddam and Osama --
You righties are the queens of drama.
M.A.
Umm, dude, perhaps limericks are your thing? "There once was a man from Nantucket..." that sort of stuff.
Give it a try; I think you'll find that it works for you.
""Islamofascism" has a ring,
Alas, of course, there's no such thing;"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/019511793X/102-8841860-4057747?v=glance&n=283155
What's so funny about the moonbat response to this post is that it's funny BECAUSE nobody back then would have said such things. The list is, of course, ludicrous, as I assume it is intended to be. But then so are many of the arguments forwarded by the left today regarding Iraq, Bush's war record, etc.
I disagree with the comments suggesting that the US didn't have to fight Germany. Of course we had no choice. Well, we did have a choice, actually - appeasement. Had the US defeated Japan while allowing the Germans to conquer much of Europe, we could have established some sort of Cold War relationship with the Nazis, I suppose. What the hell, it would have meant fewer American deaths, and though plenty of European civilians would have died, we wouldn't have been responsible for them.
Hmmm - maybe this Top 11 list isn't so ludicrous after all. Send a few of the Kos Kiddies back in time and they would, I am sure, practice their nauseating moral relativism with the Nazis.
Frank Martin -- It goes back earlier than that. The Soviets actually provided covert armor and flight training to cadres of German officers and fliers specifically forbidden to Germany in the Versailles Treaty, since Stalin saw a rearmed Germany as a threat to the capitalist West. Stalin actually nurtured the eggs that would hatch the serpent that killed between 20 and 30 million Russians.
"The leaders planned the invasion and the aftermath"
Er, no they didn't - that is what Potsdam was all about.
Unfortunately for the Left, wars have to be won first, or within clear sight of victory before a sensible and coherent post-bellum state can be envisaged.
Instead, the Left seems to think that everyting must be clearly planned an spelt out in advance.
But Washington didn't do that in 1778.
And Lincoln of 1861 was differnet from Lincoln of 1865.
And the war aims of 1898 for Cuba and the Philippines were not what eventuated.
And Woodrow Wilson?
So the Left should perhaps take a cold shower, allow us (and by "us" I mean you Americans because nobody else has the balls to do so) to defeat the Islamofascists and we'll work out an exit strategy and post-war Mideast when they are all good and dead.
This blog is for numb nuts and Bin Laden lovers. You help NO ONE with your ignorant tripe.
This whole blog is hopeless. Every post is ignorant tripe . The stupidest ones don't allow you to comment. but, that's fine. You're all traitors.
Hitler needed a ploitical solution.
We should have used more Jaw-Jaw.
/Braindead.
Funny list. Thanks for the dose of humor this morning!
The problem with the asymmetrical warfare of the modern world is that while many nations desire to attack the United States or its interests, no one will actually declare war, like the Germans did.
...and just WHO is going to clean up the environmental DISASTER on those beaches? Oil and wrecked vehicles everywhere, body parts and blood stains, expended (and some unexploded!) munitions. Those beaches have been TOTALLY destroyed for all time - they can NEVER recover.
RE: Dr. Sid "The leaders planned the invasion and the aftermath."
You are on the right track. Now maybe you are in for a shock if you restudy your history, all was not roses after going into Germany. I am not sure what war you can point to which the aftermath is all pat and dry like maybe a video game you play.
Re: History has vindicated Churchill.
Maybe so, but Churchill didn't vindicate Churchill. It was his overall plan and it failed. He took responsibility for it and took it bad. Reports say when he served on the Western Front he almost seemed like a man who wanted to die.
Also, Churchill, throughout the 30's railed against both fascism and communism; he considered both to be threats to democracy. The Left rallied to anything their Soviet master told them to, thus the fall of France when the unions actively hindered the army
You forgot
"All that destruction of that pristine coastal ecof-system -was it worth that?"
Here's an idea you won't learn from left wing academics. WWII in Europe was primarily a conflict between two Socialist governments: National Socialists versus International Socialists, Germans versus Russians. Hitler and Stalin were both leaders of Socialist states, both were men with Napoleonic ambitions. They fought each other to the death, not because they were different but because they were the same.
Oh yeah. You forgot one thing that Liberals always say, ''Violence never solves anything.''
You know, #8 doesn't make any sense in the context of WWII. But then again, it really doesn't make any sense now either. Though, in the end, Hitler also blamed the Jews for the war.
Sorry, I got was bored to tears reading the same arguements and retorts repeated again and again. That being said I wanted to mention one large difference between the "Iraq War" and WWII. We were attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor. Before this we did not care to get involved. Iraq on the other hand did not have a hand in 9/11. A little "preemptive" retort to the obvious question I will get is, no Al Qaeda and Saddamm did not have a working relationship. Read the 9/11 report and if you still have questions do a little research on the differences between the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam. It isn't an answer to whether the war is right or wrong, just wanted to point out that his post is both funny and ridiculous. Oh by the way, Israel existierte nicht, ausser nachdem Weltskrieg 2, oder?
Yesterday and Today
Shouldn't we have created the United Nations and let them negotiate with the Germans?
Again with the lie that innocent little Saddam never worked with terrorists. Why do you claim the different groups of Islamists never work together? Do you claim that Saddam did not, as reported, pay $25,000 bonuses to the families of each suicide bomber? Do you claim Saddam never used nerve gas to kill thousands of Kurds and Iranians? Do you claim Saddam did not pay hundreds of millions of Euros in bribes to United Nations officers under the Oil for Food program ? Do you claim Saddam did not put tens of thousands of Iraqis in mass graves ?
Arbeit macht frei!
All I know is if Bill Clinton was doing this (not likely) the left would be supporting him no matter what! It's all about political gain for the leftist at the expense of Bush (and I am not a Bush fan) and indirectly American security. There was a time when Democrats and Republicans saw I to I on most issues and just argued about how to attain a common goal.
In these times that is no longer the case.
FXConde:
Right you are! The political Left has become completely brainless and entirely reactionary. They don't know what they are for, EXCEPT if Bush is for it, they're "a'gin it!! " (to get the spirit right you have to shout that "a'gin!" with the proper toothless vigor).
That's pretty funny. The moonbats treating it soooo seriously is grimly humorous as well.
dan: re: #8, technically speaking, weren't the ur-Neocons in the pocket of the Jewish Residents of the British Mandate in Palestine?
I think the original is funnier; it's exactly the kind of historical error they would make.
Anyone who compares the Iraq War to WWII needs to read up on their history.
Hitler was a real threat; Japan was actually responsible for Pearl Harbor.
I won't re-re-analyze world history - your Top 11 list is hilarious!! and the comments by the "I don't get it" lefties and Kos Kooks is just as funny - More please.
Don't forget the 10's of thousands of French civilians killed by the American invasion of France. People who would have lived but for America's agression.
A little "preemptive" retort to the obvious question I will get is, no Al Qaeda and Saddamm did not have a working relationship...
No, they likely did not. Of course Al Quada is a loose affiliation of various Islamist terrorist groups (al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya, al-Jihad, etc) rather than a single monolithic organization. Sadaam on the other hand generally preferred to support Arab Nationalist terrorists like the Abu Nidal, Abbu Abbas et al. But despite their differences there isn't a bright line separating these two groups of terrorists.
Case in point: Saddam sheltered and paid a government salary to Abdul Rahman Yasin which is actually a pretty direct connection to al-Qaiada and specifically to the 9/11 attack (Khalid Shaikh Mohammed who masterminded 9/11 funded the first WTC attack, his nephew was the team leader who recruited Yasin to make the bombs).
Saddam wasn't involved in the WTC bombing or 9/11 but as Yasin's case demonsrates his support for Arab nationalist terrorism and desire to poke America in the eye had him and his financial & logistical support in close proximity to those who were.
And once again we find people on the Left with no sense of humor.
Dudes, this is funny - a joke, you know. Like Rush Limbaugh/Oxy-Contin jokes.
War is not funny Dude. The reason that the U.S. went to war in Iraq is because George Bush is following the plan set out by the Project for the New American Century.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
Calling each other names does not help anyone to understand what is really going on. Buzzwords such as moonbat do nothing but irritate and get in the way of people educating themselves on this complex mess in Iraq. Everyone should be mourning the deaths of Iraqi civilians. How often are these casualties reported? Do you sleep well at night being able to call them collateral damage? Is it that easy for you?
Bemused is more like befuddled. With his correct report that conservatives were isolationist and FDR was a liberal, he fails in his syllogism to even rebut the main point, much less refute. He conveniently forgets that now the liberals are the isolationists and the conservatives are taking on the tyrants of the world. And for that conservatives must suffer the thousand cuts of the whining Left.
Get a clue, Bemused. Tyranny should be opposed and liberty embraced at every turn.
"In mid-1998, the situation reversed; it was Iraq that reportedly took the initiative.
In March 1998, after Bin Ladin’s public fatwa against the United States, two al Qaeda members reportedly went to Iraq to meet with Iraqi intelligence.
In July, an Iraqi delegation traveled to Afghanistan to meet first with the Taliban and then with Bin Ladin. Sources reported that one, or perhaps both, of these meetings was apparently arranged through Bin Ladin’s Egyptian deputy, Zawahiri, who had ties of his own to the Iraqis. In 1998, Iraq was under intensifying U.S. pressure, which culminated in a series of large air attacks in December"
The 9/11 Commission Report, page 66.
You will notice that Al Qaeda is not mentioned by name in this quote. Thus, the claim "no ties between AQ and Iraq were found" is technically correct. But is is a fair statement ? Aye, there's the rub.
What I do find fascinating is the number of people who keep asserting what this report did or did not say. I have to wonder -- did they REALLY read it ? Or are they relying on someone else's account of what it says ?
For 50 bonus points -- and perhaps to spur some folks into reading the report in its entirety -- was this the only reported linkage between OBL and Iraq ?
And for 100 bonus points, why (according to the report) wasn't the relationship between OBL and Saddam stronger ??
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It's interesting that liberals like to talk about Bush's service record yet haven't the slightest idea about the military - this is almost entirely due to the fact that only a extreme minority of liberals have actually served their country. Oh, yeah, liberal atheists routinely give sermons to Christians as well. Yep. Those liberals love to go on for hours critiquing most anything they haven't the slightest clue about.
Clinton lied, no one died. . . except those 2000 Serbian civilians. . .and there were those 82 poor saps in Waco, Texas. No one died except for that. . .
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To set the record straight. George W. Bush, was an Air Force fighter pilot. His jet, along with others of it's kind, was decommisioned after there was so many crashes killing pilots. It was called a flying death trap, and grounded before GW even had a chance to go. He did not have enough time left in his hitch to be re-trained on another type of fighter. (Believe it or not, Fighter Jets are not like a car. You cannot easily take the controls of another jet without thoroughly being retrained.) READ YOUR HISTORY!
Actually, I think it is very ironic of these liberal protestors to even use the word "Innocent" in their supposed plight to save lives. Aren't these the same liberals who condone killing millions of un-born human beings every year in the name of human rights? (Women are human. Are they not?)
The Anti-War Protesters would have said: "The surge isn't working we need to surrender".
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